AAPL Earnings on Jan 25th? Are you sure? Everything I look at says earnings are on Jan 18. This changes everything about how to play the Jan options which expire on Jan 22. Dan, you should correct yourself if you are indeed wrong about the earnings date because it is really important to get it right if anyone is trading an AAPL earnings options play.
Fidelity ATP does let you set stops exactly as for common stock. The only caveat is that options are less liquid than common, leading sometimes to gaps below the stop point. Still it’s good protection when you can’t watch the ticker every moment.
IMO, setting a stop 50% below your basis is reasonable for an option. Also, the bid/ask spread can be wider for options than for common, so watch the speads and keep that in mind if you set a stop limit order.
I went with Feb options on AAPL playing the Feb 280 calls. I thought they were the 18th as well. I wanted to wiggle room. I had already sold my Jan 260s for some decent gains. The 25th date surprised me as well.
Date Time(ET) Upcoming Events Set Alert
01/18/2011 23:00 Q1 2011 Apple Inc. Earnings Conference Call
01/18/2011 18:00 Q1 2011 Apple Inc. Earnings Release
as per dailyfinance.com
maybe it was just a mistake- he is human! ;o)
Yes, I caught that too. I would hope that Dan will confirm or correct the earnings date. It makes a huge difference because it comes before the expiration date if its on the 18th. Also the 18th is a day after MLK which could impact the price movement.
Per Apple’s website, earnings on the 18th with conference call after market close. . . I like this strategy because I was contemplating purchasing some CRUS today. Now I have a plan.
Dan -You need to give us a timeline for filling the option trades — If we do not get a fill on this trade tomorrow at $2.20 or less – how long should we leave this trade open?
loving the trade,
from SMM free chart on 1/4/11, “aapl going up toward earning” by Dan , on 1/5/11 long aapl Feb call.AAPL is now 334+ , in the money call,
“Been doing the Work”……and CRUS will be my first option trade.
To review:
Covered Calls-(also called Buy- Writes) BAC and GM (Sell to Open, Buy to Close) (mildly bullish thesis) we are selling the right to have the stock called away at the strike price if the stock has moved higher than the strike at expiration. If the stock price is below the strike price at expiration, it will not be called away and we still own the stock. In both instances, our only reward is the premium. Is this correct?
Now……..
In-the-Money Calls – CRUS (Buy to Open, Sell to Close) Do not have to own the stock.
Questions: Is this a more bullish thesis than Covered Calls? Aren’t we expecting and hoping for more price appreciation?
Also, are we buying the right to own the stock at the strike price at expiration if the stock is above the strike price? Can you and would you ever want to take delivery of the stock? Or more commonly, do you just want to sell the option before expiration at a profit.
Break-even is $18.20 (the strike price $16.00 + the option cost $2.20). If the price does not close above $18.20 by expiration, then they expire worthless and you lose the $2.20 a share.
Covered calls- mildly bullish strategy
1) you sell the obligation to turn over your stock to someone else for a set premium if it rises through a certain price.
A. If you get called away, you get the stock Profits up to the strike price, plus the premium.
B. If you do NOT get called away, all you get is the premium.
DAN’s goal for both BAC & GM was to collect premium & to GET called away, because when you get called you get to keep whatever profit you have in the stock up to the strike price plus the premium.
2 RISK- if the premium for selling a call is 3% and the stock falls 10%. Well, you just lost 7%- that’s why you sell covered calls on stocks you like to own anyway, it lowers your cost basis, it gives them a dividend so to speak.
CALL options- bullish strategy, betting a stock will increase to certain price within a certain timeframe.
RISK- if you buy 1g worth of CRUS calls, all you can lose is 1g. Follow Dans plan & you can only lose 500.
The upside, if CRUS increases from 17.00 to 200.00 by FEB, then we are all rich!
Theoretically you have unlimited upside, but you can only lose what you buy in for.
Most people trade out of there options rather than take possession of the stock, but I’m not sure why. I think because it’s better to take a profit when you have 1 in options than risk the stock turning around and your option running out if time.
Good question.
Good luck with CRUS – I’m taking the trade & think we’ll do well. Just manage your risk, position size and stops! Know what you can stomach for losses. You can’t stay in the game if you lose all your dough in 1 shot
Excellent questions and confirmation by all. Love the use of actual terminology (e.g. Buy to open, etc) that matches what I see on my trading screen. Since I am a neophyte with options…the video and the forum comments are all good stuff. Thank you.
You said, “Break-even is $18.20 (the strike price $16.00 + the option cost $2.20). If the price does not close above $18.20 by expiration, then they expire worthless and you lose the $2.20 a share. Am I understanding all this correctly?”
You are correct the break even point is $18.20 but in order for the option to expire worthless the stock would have to close below $16 at expiration not $18.20. Dan said we wouldn’t be in this trade until expiration but if you held it to expiration any stock price between $16.01 and $18.19 would represent a partial return of the premium paid for the option. So you wouldn’t have a “profit” but you wouldn’t have a 100% loss either. Happy trading.
I bought a few AAPL calls & then bought some common CRUS today. Picking up some CRUS calls on the open.
Both of these stocks are squeezing to the upside, the calls are both short term trades. I hope to have exited both by the 18th.
FEB Aapl / MARCH Crus – less than 5% total portfolio value
Very well explained (it must have been, if I could follow along!) Seriously … I don’t feel like I would be throwing a dart to try to make an option pay off.
I certainly don’t feel like I know what I’m doing (yet) … but given the way this is laid out, the risk/reward does not seem unpalatable to me. Buying the March calls reduces risk of losses strictly from time decay. It was also VERY helpful to see the technical analysis of the chart helping define where to establish your purchase price, and why.
I believe I’ll be trying this tomorrow – because I won’t feel like I’m “guessing” (I remember how that felt when I first started trading; I won’t be going back to that!)
I don’t know how the CRUS trade will work for me but I hold CRUS and caught the squeeze at the same time Dan mentioned it in one of the forums and I independently researched the options. Had I been left to my own experience and reactions, I think my option trade would not have been wrong but would not have been the best decision. Again, I don’t know exactly what I will do or, obviously, how it will work out, but I think Dan’s video on CRUS will enable me to sharpen my option trades quite a bit. So far it looks like it will be an extra base hit. I think I have a pretty good measure of the chart and price movements for CRUS so I was willing to trade it around this month’s expiration and sell bull spreads or calls after the premium rises a bit more. However, by going further out as suggested I think I can work the run to AAPLs earnings a bit better.
I am concerned about the date of AAPL’s earnings, however. I still think I will go with the recommended trade if AAPL’s earnings are on the 18th but I had better double check the date for CRUS. Another comment is the profit target and stop levels. I think what has been recommended makes sense and having learned that a lack of discipline in making those stops in options can lead to disaster, I will definitely use stops. However, I think there is room for a lower profit target and and tighter stop losses. I’ve seen 50% and 30% suggested for short term trades but I will try to have faith in what is being recommended here. If I fail to enter within the recommended paramaters, I might tighten the profit and loss ranges. glta
Beta tester comment – from a newbie – who has watched all the videos – read every post and is “doing the work”.
The following is what I need to make this service work.
1) Information arrival time – For those of us that work in the eastern time zone getting a trade idea at 11 pm is too late. I personally have to be at work by 6:30 AM (sleeping at 10pm) and do not have time to listen to a video, do research, make a decision and execute a trade. Making a quick trade at work is do able but not the research, video etc.
2) Summary – in the email notification can you put a summary of the trade? What would be even more helpful is to make it a script that you could read to your broker if you had to and they would understand EXACTLY what you wanted. Symbol, buy to open, stop limit etc.
I hope my post did not come off as too demanding. As I re-read it may have. I would like to express this concern with the greatest amount of RESPECT to Dan.
I would find it helpful to even get the “summary instructions” for the trade much earlier. I TRUST Dan knows what he is doing and has the best intentions for his readers. What I need is some time to figure out the mechanics to execute the trade. I need time more time.
I am willing to get up even earlier if I know a trade is coming and have to watch the video in early AM. The trouble is I don’t know when it is coming.
So I hope this request is recieved without offense. I am willing to do the work and take the risks but I unfortunately am not in the group of those who have more freedom to do this during working hours.
Does 5% of a portfolio make sense for this trade? For example, $2000 worth of a CRUS call for a $40,000 portfolio. The risk to me is a pullback in the stock market of 3% to 5% to consolidate the big run-up we have had since October. Would you put $1000 down now and save $1000 for a 3% to 5% correction $1500 now? If the jobs report goes well Friday (ADP went well), then we are looking good for now.
George- Everone is different, but to me, 5% would be an upper limit, 2% might be another number to consider. Could you sleep with a total loss on the position if CRUS dropped 10%? Dan’s suggestion of March ITM calls lessens that risk, but options are leveraged so you can get big swings. A total loss would be a 5% hit to your portfolio, so decide now if you can stomach that. Good luck.
George – Position sizing is uber-important and everyone has their own comfort zone. 5% on a call is a little high for me….but that’s ME. I would (and do) have full 5% on in call spreads but the risk profile is different. Anyway, using your parameters….I might put 25% or 33% in now, add more if (and only if) the trade progresses as expected. I would not go in 50% (but that’s me!) and I would not average down because this is a trade and NOT an investment. Just my .02.
George – CRUS has a tendency to move with pretty big swings… both up And down. Everyone’s different in their risk tolerance. But whenever I’m tempted to load up on a new trade, Dan’s admonition always comes to mind… “this isn’t a race, the market will be here tomorrow with even more, and maybe even better trades”. Or something like that. Sorry if I misquoted you Dan,
I gauge position sizes by figuring out the total dollar amount of my portfolio I would allocate to this trade if I did it in common, then buy that amount in calls. For instance, say I wanted to put $2,000 into this trade because $2,000 is an acceptable position size for my portfolio. This call is $2.35 so I can buy 8 calls (including all trade fees). This is an important concept of risk management. Just because you could afford to buy $40,000 of stock dosen’t mean you want to spend that same $40,000 buying calls. Make sense?
I learned the hard way. Don’t risk $2000 of options if you would risk $2000 of stock. An option can go to zero pretty easily but a stock won’t. If I would buy $2000 of stock I would normally buy < $500 in option risk.
Yahoo says 18Th. Market smith/IBD says 25th. Go with Yahoo! This doesn’t change the initiation of the trade, though it will change the exit, which I will be commenting on.
Frankly, it will probably make the move accelerate.
Edward – Selling a put is a bullish move (and a risky move at that especially for a newcomer, big risk if the company implodes suddenly). Do you mean selling stock to hedge your call?
Anyway, you don’t sell a “stop loss” if I read your question literally. A stop is just a way to close your position under certain conditions. Ex you would close your options position (long a call) by selling to close with a stop.
Selling a put is exactly the same profit & loss picture as owning long stock. If the stock implodes you will lose just as much in either scenario. The risk is in how many contracts you sold vs how much stock you own. Don’t sell more puts than you would want to own and you’ll be OK. Overleverage and you could get wiped out. Make sure you have enough cash to buy the stock at your put strike if the stock drops and it’s them same as owning stock. If you don’t want to own the stock at that price then don’t do it, or buy the put back if it drops below support.
In at 2.30 – sorta like watching a bid on ebay – I decide what I want to pay and quit looking.. be patient, if it gets away, there is always another one..
Pick any stock on any open and watch it. What comes out as a raging bull in the morning will normally come back in as a cow to the barn to get milked.
The trade paramaters were set for a reason – for the risk reward scenario. For me, I was filled at $2.35. Like you guys I watched it run up this morning, but I calm because the normal scenario is just to wait a bit to get my price. Why did I pick 2.35? Because I weighed my opportunity costs. I don’t mind giving up $15 a contract to have a guaranteed fill and if it goes to $4.50 it is still almost a double on the money.
I don’t EVER chase stocks or options. If I miss it I miss it end of story.
Excellent video. I took an option class at UCLA while living in Santa Monica but has not really utilized what I learned in the class. Excellent class by the way for anyone interested. Anyway I am thrilled to be part of the option market mentor and because of the class I took I actually understand what Dan is talking about :-). Looking forward to more videos.
On this “Buy to Open Call” on CRUS, how do we manage the “Sell to Close Call” trades?
My ATP from Fidelity will not let me have two Sell to Close Call trades active, that is, both the “Stop Loss at $1.10” and a “Limit at $4.50”.
Do I assume correctly that we just have to watch and switch the Sell to Close Call trade at the correct time?
Thanks shifty, I have been using ATP for years but just bumped into the OCO (one cancels other) and the related OTO (one triggers the other) under the “Conditional” tab of the Trade window last month.
Well I think i did it, my first Conditional order — rather complicated.
I like that Fidelity would not let me place the order until I read their warning about placing stop orders on options – markets can be volatile 😉
I’d still put in a conditional sell order @ 4.50 for 1/2 of your options, in order to protect at least 1/2 your profit — then you can still monitor it going up, or put in a sell limit order higher than 4.50.
For what it’s worth I took this trade on much like I would any other trade. First I have a thesis….it’ll go up. After that I had to get in. Bought an initial position at the market, for me $2.35. If price goes down and the trade isn’t broken then I’ll buy some more at a lower cost. If price goes up. I’ll buy some more but not as much as I’d like.
Great question, I even have access to Fidelity’s Option Trader Pro and can’t find the theoretical value of an option. Does anyone know how to really use OTP?
Ben, thanks for the reply, but I have the OTP basic version not the full blow version that requires over 200 contracts per month. I can’t find an Analysis tab on mind. I can switch the normal window from basic to greek and get all that data, but no “Theo”.
I called Fido on this and if you go to ATP (not OTP) Preferences, then Quotes in the left column, then to Option Chain, you can open the preferences for your option chain and add columns of Greeks, Romans, etc. 😉
Click Apply, then OK. I don’t think you have to reboot but if your open your ATP option chain and the new columns aren’t there, then do so.
Suzie Smith says:
Hi there,
I have an options calculator through my TD Ameritrade account. It allows you to input different volatility/time left/stock price scenario’s. You can google “options calculator” and there are free ones on the net. The volatility on CRUS right now is around 23%. As a for instance, if CRUS stock increases in volatility to say 35%, with 20 days left on the option, and the stock goes to $20 those options will have a theoretical value of $4.10. If the same volatility occurs and the same price target is hit say within the next two weeks those options will have a theoretical value of $5.35. This trade represents an excellent risk/reward scenario and it has a “reason” to move. Three things you must get right, right off the bat in trading options is time, direction and price.
Tradestation. But you should be able to get theoretical value on your trading platform too. Most have it. If you can’t find it, just call your customer service and they can help you out.
Please review to see that the input satisfies the trade outlined by DF.It hasn’t excuted so cancelling is not a problem. Thanks, Sam
—Your limit order to Buy 10 contracts of CRUS Mar 19 2011 16.0 Call at 2.20 (order xxxxxxx) was received; if that order is filled it will trigger your limit order to Sell 10 contracts of CRUS Mar 19 2011 16.0 Call at 4.50 (order xxxxx) and your stop market order to Sell 10 contracts of CRUS Mar 19 2011 16.0 Call, with an activation price of 1.10 (order xxxxxx). If one of these last two orders is filled, it will cancel the other. It’s possible both parts of an OCA order could be filled if both orders simultaneously hit the prices you set. If this occurs, TD AMERITRADE will attempt to contact you to discuss your order. However, cancellations are performed on a best-efforts basis.
I wrote down yesturday’s volume for the March 16 strike after watching the video….it was 501… Got in at 2.25 still have an open order for 2.20 if it backs up
Keith – I thought the CRUS options only traded in 5c increments – Although I did notice on my ATP quote window at one stage when the bid/ask was 2.35/2.40 the “Last” quote was 2.39.
I am relatively new to options, does it mean even when bid/asks seem to be in 5c increments you can put a limit in between?
Thanks
I’m not sure there is anything limiting your bid/ask to 5 cents (or any spread). You should be able to enter limit orders between the spread as well as far as I know.
I would like to thank everyone for their comments I especially enjoyed Wade Edwards comments to Irish Eyes. I am still on the sidelines trying to learn.
Jose- trust that we are all still trying to learn! If you are more comfortable on the sidelines, paper trade the video’s. Follow the progress of the trade from start to finish. I’ve done this myself and it’s a great confidence builder.
Dans covered call trading idea’s had a larger capital requirement than CRUS. With CRUS you could buy 1 call at 2.20. Because 1 call = 100 shares you multiply 2.20 times 100 for $220.00.
You could actively participate in this trade for $220.00 if you got your order filled.
I was in at 2.35 – so that’s $235.00 per call.
I don’t know about you, but I pay REAL close attention when I have REAL money at risk, no matter what the amount:
Never stop learning!
Dan – Two comments:
Can you flesh out the reasoning for the 1.10 stop placement. I am not questioning the stop, just how did you get there?
Thanks for putting the music at the beginning of the videos. I now walk around all day with plinkity, plink, plink; plinkity plink, plink, running through my head. 😉
Hi David. Thanks for the note. The $1.10 stop was just a function of risk management. I didn’t want to risk more than 50% on the position. So if the entry had been $2.50, I’d have had the stop at $1.25. I’d like to say that it was more scientific or insightful, but I’d be lying. Just managing the downside.
Glad you like the music. I am making it shorter due to data considerations. Many members download the videos on their PDAs (iPad, iPhone, Droid, etc), and they pay data charges. So all that music costs money. Yes, it’s a small amount…but it does add up.
Still, I like the vibe myself; just so long as it doesn’t turn into “Sing Along With Dan”. :o)
David,
Were you able to execute the trade with Dan’s original conditions? I am still waiting, but the numbers look like 2.50 now.
Do we just wait? Or take it off the table and go for the next trade?
The % chart shows transcations have increased for both 16 & 17 strike. Thanks, Sam
Sam,
I waited until the end of the day and entered at 2.40. Understanding that the trade is skewed by entering above Dan’s recommended 2.20, I took a small position as something beats nothing every day of the week.
I am now in positive territory with this trade and am happy as I really want to learn the nuances of buying calls.
If you got ‘the can’t help its’ as Dan so affectionately calls that manic drive to get involved then just understand your risk.
What if you are so new with options that you really don’t understand the risk?
First off study close all the videos put up on the site.
Next: Follow the parameters of the trades put forth. It is with certainty that when Dan mentions get price ‘X’ he means that price as he specifically defined the rationale for the trade.
Limit orders on entries: I put mine in for $2.05 and managed to get filled. Why? I was willing to risk not getting in to get better pricing and also betting on the fact that with market gyrations sooner or later I would get filled. The simple explanation is that now $4.10 is the double over $4.40 which may not sound significant but nickels are important on options trades and this added cushion now adds more to the value and pays the costs. What if I didn’t get in? There is always another trade… so be it.
There is no criticism here for anyone who got in higher. I just hope this post helps you in the future. Opening and closing positions can get tricky depending on how the underlying stock is trading. Get your best price fill on the exit when you want o leave by either:
A: placing a sell limit order for a price you like. OR
B: if the price action seems frothy sell into the expanding Bollinger Bands rising. This price action will help make certain that while the price action is rising and the fill is closer (bid heading higher) and rising with the price. You will get a better price. People here are paying up and not getting as selective.
Always pay close attention to the spread between the bid and ask. If you are not too greedy you get get reasonably good fills around the low-middle of the spread.
Note to all, I got Blackberried again while at work. I hit up the wrong month with the trackball. I am in the February 16s on CRUS. My points remain in spite of myself… lol, get your price.
Flash crashed and I can’t get the OMM forum to come back up. So, stuff happened and happens… Okay, that said I would not be paying up for the March calls regardless so if I did not get the fill for $2.20 or lower I would not have taken the trade. Since I made the mistake with the Blackberry of taking the right strike and $ level/price I wanted I am in but not where I originally intended. At least this mistake worked out so far.
Something is up. I can get on here but not back into the forum.
What bugs me about my mistake on CRUS is the open interest in the contract I took by mistake. I far prefer more liquidity. Kick me for not reading it all closer while I was at work trying to do things too fast regardless of being up on it! Sometimes fortune smiles. Regardless: Duh!
Moved my stop up to $1.65. Anybody think I am too aggressive on my stop or not aggressive enough? Seems to give it more room then it needs to work. I think I should probably be more aggressive on my stop but my tendency is typically too aggressive. Fighting my tendency.
CRUS, SWN, UNP – Ahhhh if we are moving the market on entry…..won’t we move it when everybody rushes to the door to exit the dance floor. I hate being the last one at the party. I also do not want to go home too early and miss the action. How do we do this such that we do not get hurt or hurt each other in the stampede when Dan gives the go?
I fully understand that this will not represent a problem for the CC’s I thought about the plan, entry and typical exit but not the unforeseen action on the exit!?
Dan , @SMM u talking about trim down shares of AAPL before its earning on 18th,
since u made the relationship between price of AAPL and CRUS,
do we need to take some profit on CRUS call? like sell close some contracts on CRUS
Wishing all the best for Steve Jobs health. If past history is any guide, we’re likely to see a drop is AAPL’s stock price regardless of possible/probable great earnings. If there’s a big drop in CRUS as well, do we go ahead and sell? Or should we hold and wait for a “snap-back”? Congrats to Steve for selling Friday.
Good question! Dan’s alert email said to set our stop at $3.10 and sell by the end of Tuesday, but I’m nervous about whether CRUS will open far down in sympathy with AAPL. Any suggestions?
I’m holding using just below today’s intraday low at the open (18.07) as my stop. This should flush out the panic selling. I’ll see how the stock reacts during the day (while keeping an eye on AAPL).
AAPL Earnings on Jan 25th? Are you sure? Everything I look at says earnings are on Jan 18. This changes everything about how to play the Jan options which expire on Jan 22. Dan, you should correct yourself if you are indeed wrong about the earnings date because it is really important to get it right if anyone is trading an AAPL earnings options play.
Please pardon what may be an obvious question. I get the trade and the great explanation.
Setting stops. I use Fidelity ATP. Do you just set stops like on common? Buy at 2.20 / Sell, Stop Loss 1.10.?
I have only sold covered calls and never bought calls so my position on this is going to be small.
Fidelity ATP does let you set stops exactly as for common stock. The only caveat is that options are less liquid than common, leading sometimes to gaps below the stop point. Still it’s good protection when you can’t watch the ticker every moment.
IMO, setting a stop 50% below your basis is reasonable for an option. Also, the bid/ask spread can be wider for options than for common, so watch the speads and keep that in mind if you set a stop limit order.
I usually set my stops at 1-2x below Average True Range, usually 2% unless short term trade – then maybe less.
Yup earnings Jan 18th AMC from TOS.
I went with Feb options on AAPL playing the Feb 280 calls. I thought they were the 18th as well. I wanted to wiggle room. I had already sold my Jan 260s for some decent gains. The 25th date surprised me as well.
Date Time(ET) Upcoming Events Set Alert
01/18/2011 23:00 Q1 2011 Apple Inc. Earnings Conference Call
01/18/2011 18:00 Q1 2011 Apple Inc. Earnings Release
as per dailyfinance.com
maybe it was just a mistake- he is human! ;o)
Yes, I caught that too. I would hope that Dan will confirm or correct the earnings date. It makes a huge difference because it comes before the expiration date if its on the 18th. Also the 18th is a day after MLK which could impact the price movement.
Per Apple’s website, earnings on the 18th with conference call after market close. . . I like this strategy because I was contemplating purchasing some CRUS today. Now I have a plan.
Dan -You need to give us a timeline for filling the option trades — If we do not get a fill on this trade tomorrow at $2.20 or less – how long should we leave this trade open?
loving the trade,
from SMM free chart on 1/4/11, “aapl going up toward earning” by Dan , on 1/5/11 long aapl Feb call.AAPL is now 334+ , in the money call,
think CRUS should work too ,
“Been doing the Work”……and CRUS will be my first option trade.
To review:
Covered Calls-(also called Buy- Writes) BAC and GM (Sell to Open, Buy to Close) (mildly bullish thesis) we are selling the right to have the stock called away at the strike price if the stock has moved higher than the strike at expiration. If the stock price is below the strike price at expiration, it will not be called away and we still own the stock. In both instances, our only reward is the premium. Is this correct?
Now……..
In-the-Money Calls – CRUS (Buy to Open, Sell to Close) Do not have to own the stock.
Questions: Is this a more bullish thesis than Covered Calls? Aren’t we expecting and hoping for more price appreciation?
Also, are we buying the right to own the stock at the strike price at expiration if the stock is above the strike price? Can you and would you ever want to take delivery of the stock? Or more commonly, do you just want to sell the option before expiration at a profit.
Break-even is $18.20 (the strike price $16.00 + the option cost $2.20). If the price does not close above $18.20 by expiration, then they expire worthless and you lose the $2.20 a share.
Am I understanding all this correctly?
Thanks.
Irish eyes / great work! Your getting it!!
Covered calls- mildly bullish strategy
1) you sell the obligation to turn over your stock to someone else for a set premium if it rises through a certain price.
A. If you get called away, you get the stock Profits up to the strike price, plus the premium.
B. If you do NOT get called away, all you get is the premium.
DAN’s goal for both BAC & GM was to collect premium & to GET called away, because when you get called you get to keep whatever profit you have in the stock up to the strike price plus the premium.
2 RISK- if the premium for selling a call is 3% and the stock falls 10%. Well, you just lost 7%- that’s why you sell covered calls on stocks you like to own anyway, it lowers your cost basis, it gives them a dividend so to speak.
CALL options- bullish strategy, betting a stock will increase to certain price within a certain timeframe.
RISK- if you buy 1g worth of CRUS calls, all you can lose is 1g. Follow Dans plan & you can only lose 500.
The upside, if CRUS increases from 17.00 to 200.00 by FEB, then we are all rich!
Theoretically you have unlimited upside, but you can only lose what you buy in for.
Most people trade out of there options rather than take possession of the stock, but I’m not sure why. I think because it’s better to take a profit when you have 1 in options than risk the stock turning around and your option running out if time.
Good question.
Good luck with CRUS – I’m taking the trade & think we’ll do well. Just manage your risk, position size and stops! Know what you can stomach for losses. You can’t stay in the game if you lose all your dough in 1 shot
Thank you so much Wade.
My knowledge and experience of Options was Zilch in the beginning.
Still a bit scared but slowly learning now.
DC55/Irish Eyes/Wade E.:
Excellent questions and confirmation by all. Love the use of actual terminology (e.g. Buy to open, etc) that matches what I see on my trading screen. Since I am a neophyte with options…the video and the forum comments are all good stuff. Thank you.
Tom
Hello Irish Eyes,
You said, “Break-even is $18.20 (the strike price $16.00 + the option cost $2.20). If the price does not close above $18.20 by expiration, then they expire worthless and you lose the $2.20 a share. Am I understanding all this correctly?”
You are correct the break even point is $18.20 but in order for the option to expire worthless the stock would have to close below $16 at expiration not $18.20. Dan said we wouldn’t be in this trade until expiration but if you held it to expiration any stock price between $16.01 and $18.19 would represent a partial return of the premium paid for the option. So you wouldn’t have a “profit” but you wouldn’t have a 100% loss either. Happy trading.
Fedi
I bought a few AAPL calls & then bought some common CRUS today. Picking up some CRUS calls on the open.
Both of these stocks are squeezing to the upside, the calls are both short term trades. I hope to have exited both by the 18th.
FEB Aapl / MARCH Crus – less than 5% total portfolio value
Very well explained (it must have been, if I could follow along!) Seriously … I don’t feel like I would be throwing a dart to try to make an option pay off.
I certainly don’t feel like I know what I’m doing (yet) … but given the way this is laid out, the risk/reward does not seem unpalatable to me. Buying the March calls reduces risk of losses strictly from time decay. It was also VERY helpful to see the technical analysis of the chart helping define where to establish your purchase price, and why.
I believe I’ll be trying this tomorrow – because I won’t feel like I’m “guessing” (I remember how that felt when I first started trading; I won’t be going back to that!)
Nice trade. Good presentation. I’m in.
I don’t know how the CRUS trade will work for me but I hold CRUS and caught the squeeze at the same time Dan mentioned it in one of the forums and I independently researched the options. Had I been left to my own experience and reactions, I think my option trade would not have been wrong but would not have been the best decision. Again, I don’t know exactly what I will do or, obviously, how it will work out, but I think Dan’s video on CRUS will enable me to sharpen my option trades quite a bit. So far it looks like it will be an extra base hit. I think I have a pretty good measure of the chart and price movements for CRUS so I was willing to trade it around this month’s expiration and sell bull spreads or calls after the premium rises a bit more. However, by going further out as suggested I think I can work the run to AAPLs earnings a bit better.
I am concerned about the date of AAPL’s earnings, however. I still think I will go with the recommended trade if AAPL’s earnings are on the 18th but I had better double check the date for CRUS. Another comment is the profit target and stop levels. I think what has been recommended makes sense and having learned that a lack of discipline in making those stops in options can lead to disaster, I will definitely use stops. However, I think there is room for a lower profit target and and tighter stop losses. I’ve seen 50% and 30% suggested for short term trades but I will try to have faith in what is being recommended here. If I fail to enter within the recommended paramaters, I might tighten the profit and loss ranges. glta
It looks like CRUS is up 4% in premarket. If this trade was yesterday do we just walk away?
Beta tester comment – from a newbie – who has watched all the videos – read every post and is “doing the work”.
The following is what I need to make this service work.
1) Information arrival time – For those of us that work in the eastern time zone getting a trade idea at 11 pm is too late. I personally have to be at work by 6:30 AM (sleeping at 10pm) and do not have time to listen to a video, do research, make a decision and execute a trade. Making a quick trade at work is do able but not the research, video etc.
2) Summary – in the email notification can you put a summary of the trade? What would be even more helpful is to make it a script that you could read to your broker if you had to and they would understand EXACTLY what you wanted. Symbol, buy to open, stop limit etc.
I concur with DC55. Was about to go to bed when Dan’s email arrived.
I hope my post did not come off as too demanding. As I re-read it may have. I would like to express this concern with the greatest amount of RESPECT to Dan.
I would find it helpful to even get the “summary instructions” for the trade much earlier. I TRUST Dan knows what he is doing and has the best intentions for his readers. What I need is some time to figure out the mechanics to execute the trade. I need time more time.
I am willing to get up even earlier if I know a trade is coming and have to watch the video in early AM. The trouble is I don’t know when it is coming.
So I hope this request is recieved without offense. I am willing to do the work and take the risks but I unfortunately am not in the group of those who have more freedom to do this during working hours.
The questioning of the earnings date of AAPL vividly shows the value
of these blogs.
Does 5% of a portfolio make sense for this trade? For example, $2000 worth of a CRUS call for a $40,000 portfolio. The risk to me is a pullback in the stock market of 3% to 5% to consolidate the big run-up we have had since October. Would you put $1000 down now and save $1000 for a 3% to 5% correction $1500 now? If the jobs report goes well Friday (ADP went well), then we are looking good for now.
George- Everone is different, but to me, 5% would be an upper limit, 2% might be another number to consider. Could you sleep with a total loss on the position if CRUS dropped 10%? Dan’s suggestion of March ITM calls lessens that risk, but options are leveraged so you can get big swings. A total loss would be a 5% hit to your portfolio, so decide now if you can stomach that. Good luck.
George – Position sizing is uber-important and everyone has their own comfort zone. 5% on a call is a little high for me….but that’s ME. I would (and do) have full 5% on in call spreads but the risk profile is different. Anyway, using your parameters….I might put 25% or 33% in now, add more if (and only if) the trade progresses as expected. I would not go in 50% (but that’s me!) and I would not average down because this is a trade and NOT an investment. Just my .02.
George – CRUS has a tendency to move with pretty big swings… both up And down. Everyone’s different in their risk tolerance. But whenever I’m tempted to load up on a new trade, Dan’s admonition always comes to mind… “this isn’t a race, the market will be here tomorrow with even more, and maybe even better trades”. Or something like that. Sorry if I misquoted you Dan,
I gauge position sizes by figuring out the total dollar amount of my portfolio I would allocate to this trade if I did it in common, then buy that amount in calls. For instance, say I wanted to put $2,000 into this trade because $2,000 is an acceptable position size for my portfolio. This call is $2.35 so I can buy 8 calls (including all trade fees). This is an important concept of risk management. Just because you could afford to buy $40,000 of stock dosen’t mean you want to spend that same $40,000 buying calls. Make sense?
I learned the hard way. Don’t risk $2000 of options if you would risk $2000 of stock. An option can go to zero pretty easily but a stock won’t. If I would buy $2000 of stock I would normally buy < $500 in option risk.
Yahoo says 18Th. Market smith/IBD says 25th. Go with Yahoo! This doesn’t change the initiation of the trade, though it will change the exit, which I will be commenting on.
Frankly, it will probably make the move accelerate.
Sorry for the confusion. My fault.
Dan
Never Traded option before. I want to know the answer to David Lylis question about selling a stop loss do I sell a put at 16 to make a stop loss?
Set up the stop loss as if you would for common X number of contracts; Stop Loss at 1.10
Someone responded to me.
Edward – Selling a put is a bullish move (and a risky move at that especially for a newcomer, big risk if the company implodes suddenly). Do you mean selling stock to hedge your call?
Anyway, you don’t sell a “stop loss” if I read your question literally. A stop is just a way to close your position under certain conditions. Ex you would close your options position (long a call) by selling to close with a stop.
Selling a put is exactly the same profit & loss picture as owning long stock. If the stock implodes you will lose just as much in either scenario. The risk is in how many contracts you sold vs how much stock you own. Don’t sell more puts than you would want to own and you’ll be OK. Overleverage and you could get wiped out. Make sure you have enough cash to buy the stock at your put strike if the stock drops and it’s them same as owning stock. If you don’t want to own the stock at that price then don’t do it, or buy the put back if it drops below support.
Excellent Dan! No need to apologize for the length of the video. I look forward to more!!!
I agree, the longer and more repeating the better. Sorry to all the veterans, I am new.
mARKET opened up 2.30 got in at 2.40. Had learned in the past do chase it/ Nervous to wait for it to go down to 2.20!
I meant do not chase it
Order rejected.
Bid is now 2.40, Ask is 2.45
How much is too much?
I didn’t get hit either. I think I will up my bid a bit, but wait and see if CRUS cools down some.
I am waiting for 2.20. Dan’s comment of “you are on your own” was well taken.
I still need training wheels.
This would be my first time buying an option so I am feeling the same way.
In at 2.30 – sorta like watching a bid on ebay – I decide what I want to pay and quit looking.. be patient, if it gets away, there is always another one..
Gang,
Pick any stock on any open and watch it. What comes out as a raging bull in the morning will normally come back in as a cow to the barn to get milked.
The trade paramaters were set for a reason – for the risk reward scenario. For me, I was filled at $2.35. Like you guys I watched it run up this morning, but I calm because the normal scenario is just to wait a bit to get my price. Why did I pick 2.35? Because I weighed my opportunity costs. I don’t mind giving up $15 a contract to have a guaranteed fill and if it goes to $4.50 it is still almost a double on the money.
I don’t EVER chase stocks or options. If I miss it I miss it end of story.
Excellent video. I took an option class at UCLA while living in Santa Monica but has not really utilized what I learned in the class. Excellent class by the way for anyone interested. Anyway I am thrilled to be part of the option market mentor and because of the class I took I actually understand what Dan is talking about :-). Looking forward to more videos.
I am in at 2.40 and i am green (profit side) not a bunch of red numbers. yeah I love it thanks Dan you are great
On this “Buy to Open Call” on CRUS, how do we manage the “Sell to Close Call” trades?
My ATP from Fidelity will not let me have two Sell to Close Call trades active, that is, both the “Stop Loss at $1.10” and a “Limit at $4.50”.
Do I assume correctly that we just have to watch and switch the Sell to Close Call trade at the correct time?
I have the same issue with ATP. I plan to just place the stop loss, and use a mental Limit to take my profits.
Bob, Some brokers allow “OCO” one cancels other orders. Good to have when you are not following the market.
Thanks shifty, I have been using ATP for years but just bumped into the OCO (one cancels other) and the related OTO (one triggers the other) under the “Conditional” tab of the Trade window last month.
Well I think i did it, my first Conditional order — rather complicated.
I like that Fidelity would not let me place the order until I read their warning about placing stop orders on options – markets can be volatile 😉
I would NOT place the $4.50 limit sell to close order.
Here’s why: What if APPL decides to buy CRUS for $26 per share? You just sold your $16 call for $4.50 instead of $10.
Nuff said.
I’d still put in a conditional sell order @ 4.50 for 1/2 of your options, in order to protect at least 1/2 your profit — then you can still monitor it going up, or put in a sell limit order higher than 4.50.
Z
Dan, do you recommend an automatic trailing stop of 1.1 – or should we monitor and adjust manually on the way up?
Also … the Delta quoted by OptionsXpress is .6713, I think your video said .69 …. Should I care? I’m clueless.
Order placed at 2.20 but likely won’t get hit. I’m not going to chase this since I don’t really have a good feel for the limits.
I did however take a long position in CRUS at 17.32 – up for now.
Delta: The closer to 1 you get, the more probable the outcome that your scenario will occur. I don’t trade any options with a delta under .50.
Hey everyone,
For what it’s worth I took this trade on much like I would any other trade. First I have a thesis….it’ll go up. After that I had to get in. Bought an initial position at the market, for me $2.35. If price goes down and the trade isn’t broken then I’ll buy some more at a lower cost. If price goes up. I’ll buy some more but not as much as I’d like.
Hope this helps anyone sitting on the fence.
Dan,
What trading platform are you using to see the theoretical value is so valuable.
thanks Dan
Great question, I even have access to Fidelity’s Option Trader Pro and can’t find the theoretical value of an option. Does anyone know how to really use OTP?
Under OTP’s Analysis tab, there’s a table showing Greeks and analytics. There you’ll see a column ‘Theo’.
Ben, thanks for the reply, but I have the OTP basic version not the full blow version that requires over 200 contracts per month. I can’t find an Analysis tab on mind. I can switch the normal window from basic to greek and get all that data, but no “Theo”.
I called Fido on this and if you go to ATP (not OTP) Preferences, then Quotes in the left column, then to Option Chain, you can open the preferences for your option chain and add columns of Greeks, Romans, etc. 😉
Click Apply, then OK. I don’t think you have to reboot but if your open your ATP option chain and the new columns aren’t there, then do so.
Hi there,
I have an options calculator through my TD Ameritrade account. It allows you to input different volatility/time left/stock price scenario’s. You can google “options calculator” and there are free ones on the net. The volatility on CRUS right now is around 23%. As a for instance, if CRUS stock increases in volatility to say 35%, with 20 days left on the option, and the stock goes to $20 those options will have a theoretical value of $4.10. If the same volatility occurs and the same price target is hit say within the next two weeks those options will have a theoretical value of $5.35. This trade represents an excellent risk/reward scenario and it has a “reason” to move. Three things you must get right, right off the bat in trading options is time, direction and price.
Suz
Tradestation. But you should be able to get theoretical value on your trading platform too. Most have it. If you can’t find it, just call your customer service and they can help you out.
Dan
Take a look at the volume, 5,522 and climbing. Well above normal levels. Looks like OMM is moving things :-o) Got in at 2.29
Please review to see that the input satisfies the trade outlined by DF.It hasn’t excuted so cancelling is not a problem. Thanks, Sam
—Your limit order to Buy 10 contracts of CRUS Mar 19 2011 16.0 Call at 2.20 (order xxxxxxx) was received; if that order is filled it will trigger your limit order to Sell 10 contracts of CRUS Mar 19 2011 16.0 Call at 4.50 (order xxxxx) and your stop market order to Sell 10 contracts of CRUS Mar 19 2011 16.0 Call, with an activation price of 1.10 (order xxxxxx). If one of these last two orders is filled, it will cancel the other. It’s possible both parts of an OCA order could be filled if both orders simultaneously hit the prices you set. If this occurs, TD AMERITRADE will attempt to contact you to discuss your order. However, cancellations are performed on a best-efforts basis.
I wrote down yesturday’s volume for the March 16 strike after watching the video….it was 501… Got in at 2.25 still have an open order for 2.20 if it backs up
Keith – I thought the CRUS options only traded in 5c increments – Although I did notice on my ATP quote window at one stage when the bid/ask was 2.35/2.40 the “Last” quote was 2.39.
I am relatively new to options, does it mean even when bid/asks seem to be in 5c increments you can put a limit in between?
Thanks
hollis, We can only enter bids/asks in 5 cent increments on CRUS but the market maker can wheel and deal in fractions of pennies. GatorD
I’m not sure there is anything limiting your bid/ask to 5 cents (or any spread). You should be able to enter limit orders between the spread as well as far as I know.
Where is the edit button?
I would like to thank everyone for their comments I especially enjoyed Wade Edwards comments to Irish Eyes. I am still on the sidelines trying to learn.
Jose- trust that we are all still trying to learn! If you are more comfortable on the sidelines, paper trade the video’s. Follow the progress of the trade from start to finish. I’ve done this myself and it’s a great confidence builder.
Dans covered call trading idea’s had a larger capital requirement than CRUS. With CRUS you could buy 1 call at 2.20. Because 1 call = 100 shares you multiply 2.20 times 100 for $220.00.
You could actively participate in this trade for $220.00 if you got your order filled.
I was in at 2.35 – so that’s $235.00 per call.
I don’t know about you, but I pay REAL close attention when I have REAL money at risk, no matter what the amount:
Never stop learning!
Dan – Two comments:
Can you flesh out the reasoning for the 1.10 stop placement. I am not questioning the stop, just how did you get there?
Thanks for putting the music at the beginning of the videos. I now walk around all day with plinkity, plink, plink; plinkity plink, plink, running through my head. 😉
Hi David. Thanks for the note. The $1.10 stop was just a function of risk management. I didn’t want to risk more than 50% on the position. So if the entry had been $2.50, I’d have had the stop at $1.25. I’d like to say that it was more scientific or insightful, but I’d be lying. Just managing the downside.
Glad you like the music. I am making it shorter due to data considerations. Many members download the videos on their PDAs (iPad, iPhone, Droid, etc), and they pay data charges. So all that music costs money. Yes, it’s a small amount…but it does add up.
Still, I like the vibe myself; just so long as it doesn’t turn into “Sing Along With Dan”. :o)
Have a great day.
Dan
Tell then to get an unlimited data plan. The intro is cool.
I moved my stop up on CRUS March Call to 1.30 today. Anybody else moving this up as we go?
Can some one offer a little perspective on adding to a trade like this? I am new, in small, and liking the learning experience.
My sense is that waiting for pullbacks in the common may not be the same rule in call options. Yes?
David,
Were you able to execute the trade with Dan’s original conditions? I am still waiting, but the numbers look like 2.50 now.
Do we just wait? Or take it off the table and go for the next trade?
The % chart shows transcations have increased for both 16 & 17 strike. Thanks, Sam
Sam,
I waited until the end of the day and entered at 2.40. Understanding that the trade is skewed by entering above Dan’s recommended 2.20, I took a small position as something beats nothing every day of the week.
I am now in positive territory with this trade and am happy as I really want to learn the nuances of buying calls.
I have taken the “get involved position”.
All the best.
The need to get good pricing on options:
If you got ‘the can’t help its’ as Dan so affectionately calls that manic drive to get involved then just understand your risk.
What if you are so new with options that you really don’t understand the risk?
First off study close all the videos put up on the site.
Next: Follow the parameters of the trades put forth. It is with certainty that when Dan mentions get price ‘X’ he means that price as he specifically defined the rationale for the trade.
Limit orders on entries: I put mine in for $2.05 and managed to get filled. Why? I was willing to risk not getting in to get better pricing and also betting on the fact that with market gyrations sooner or later I would get filled. The simple explanation is that now $4.10 is the double over $4.40 which may not sound significant but nickels are important on options trades and this added cushion now adds more to the value and pays the costs. What if I didn’t get in? There is always another trade… so be it.
There is no criticism here for anyone who got in higher. I just hope this post helps you in the future. Opening and closing positions can get tricky depending on how the underlying stock is trading. Get your best price fill on the exit when you want o leave by either:
A: placing a sell limit order for a price you like. OR
B: if the price action seems frothy sell into the expanding Bollinger Bands rising. This price action will help make certain that while the price action is rising and the fill is closer (bid heading higher) and rising with the price. You will get a better price. People here are paying up and not getting as selective.
Always pay close attention to the spread between the bid and ask. If you are not too greedy you get get reasonably good fills around the low-middle of the spread.
Hope this helps.
how does someone get filled at 2.05 and another not get filled with a limit order at 2.20? how did i not get in then? (maybe next week i’ll get in….)
I am having keyboard lag. Please excuse some of the typos in my last post. I should have read it over closer before I posted.
Is the 2.05 one of the typos? I had an order in all day at 2.20 and did not get filled.
I would like to add to this position today and I believe we are now at 2.70. Does this make sense, or am I chasing? I have raised my stops to 1.35.
Note to all, I got Blackberried again while at work. I hit up the wrong month with the trackball. I am in the February 16s on CRUS. My points remain in spite of myself… lol, get your price.
Dunsek – CRUS
Flash crashed and I can’t get the OMM forum to come back up. So, stuff happened and happens… Okay, that said I would not be paying up for the March calls regardless so if I did not get the fill for $2.20 or lower I would not have taken the trade. Since I made the mistake with the Blackberry of taking the right strike and $ level/price I wanted I am in but not where I originally intended. At least this mistake worked out so far.
Something is up. I can get on here but not back into the forum.
What bugs me about my mistake on CRUS is the open interest in the contract I took by mistake. I far prefer more liquidity. Kick me for not reading it all closer while I was at work trying to do things too fast regardless of being up on it! Sometimes fortune smiles. Regardless: Duh!
Hadn’t been able to get filled on Dan’s limit @ 2.20 so I did a variation on Dan’s trade: (the order filled this morning).
Entered the CRUS trade today via a 16-18 “Bull Call Spread” for February. net debit: 1.16
This gives a breakeven with CRUS @ 17.16 plus commissions.
this is a two part trade:
Buy to Open Feb 16 Call
Sell to Open Feb 18 Call
i have the right to buy CRUS @ 16, and the obligation to sell CRUS @ 18 (if it’s higher)
will probably exit the trade before earnings…
m.
for more info on Bull Call Spreads:
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&num=10&hl=en&safe=off&q=bull+call+spread&aq=f&aqi=g5&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=9bef8cda26d1a6ec
Martin:
how’d it work out? I like this type of trade vs. the amateur naked long
Moved my stop up to $1.65. Anybody think I am too aggressive on my stop or not aggressive enough? Seems to give it more room then it needs to work. I think I should probably be more aggressive on my stop but my tendency is typically too aggressive. Fighting my tendency.
Ooops. Got the message. I am too hyperactive.
CRUS, SWN, UNP – Ahhhh if we are moving the market on entry…..won’t we move it when everybody rushes to the door to exit the dance floor. I hate being the last one at the party. I also do not want to go home too early and miss the action. How do we do this such that we do not get hurt or hurt each other in the stampede when Dan gives the go?
I fully understand that this will not represent a problem for the CC’s I thought about the plan, entry and typical exit but not the unforeseen action on the exit!?
One option is long call and short common if you have the horsepower.
Dan , @SMM u talking about trim down shares of AAPL before its earning on 18th,
since u made the relationship between price of AAPL and CRUS,
do we need to take some profit on CRUS call? like sell close some contracts on CRUS
Just rang the register on 5 CRUS Mar 16s for $3.40. Up 1.10 on the trade (less commission). Thanks Dan!
I missed out on GM and UNP (wish I had chased them too!), so I’m anxiously awaiting the next position.
Steve, Curious as to why you closed the position before the target price. Did you see something?
Wishing all the best for Steve Jobs health. If past history is any guide, we’re likely to see a drop is AAPL’s stock price regardless of possible/probable great earnings. If there’s a big drop in CRUS as well, do we go ahead and sell? Or should we hold and wait for a “snap-back”? Congrats to Steve for selling Friday.
Good question! Dan’s alert email said to set our stop at $3.10 and sell by the end of Tuesday, but I’m nervous about whether CRUS will open far down in sympathy with AAPL. Any suggestions?
I’m holding using just below today’s intraday low at the open (18.07) as my stop. This should flush out the panic selling. I’ll see how the stock reacts during the day (while keeping an eye on AAPL).
Closed out at yesterdays close @ 3.20.